Minutes of the Meetings in Paris, France

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MINUTES OF THE SERVAS INTERNATIONAL EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEETINGS [EXCO]

HELD IN PARIS, FRANCE

  • NOVEMBER 3 THROUGH NOVEMBER 9, 2004
  • Wednesday, November 3 10:05 a.m.--08:30 p.m.
  • Thursday, November 4 10:40 a.m.--09:45 p.m.

Meetings were held at the home of a generous Servas Host who prefers anonymity

11 Rue Fallempin 15th Arrondisement 75015 Paris, France

  • Friday, November 5 10:05 a.m.--10:23 p.m.
  • Saturday, November 6 10:34 a.m.--11:03 p.m.
  • Sunday, November 7 11:02 a.m.--03:55 p.m.

Meetings were held at Missions Populaire

  • 17 Rue de l'Avre
  • 15th Arrondisement
  • 75015 Paris, France
  • Monday, November 8 09:43 a.m.--08:54 p.m.
  • Tuesday, November 9 09:33 a.m.--04:47 p.m.

Meetings returned to the home of the generous Servas Host who prefers anonymity

  • 11 Rue Fallempin
  • 15th Arrondisement
  • 75015 Paris, France

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Wednesday, November 3

In attendance:

  • Geoff Maltby, President
  • Honora Clemens, General Secretary
  • Omer Ozkan, Treasure
  • Gary Sealey, Peace Secretary
  • Claudio Pacchiega, Host List Coordinator


1. Motion Gary moved that the revised agenda be approved as a draft to be updated at 4:30 p.m. ----Omer seconded----It passed unanimously


Gary Sealey led us in a bonding activity entitled, "Welcome to our Journey" which included a strategic planning exercise (please see the pre-planned agenda.)

The summary statement at the conclusion of the activity:

  1. Organize Servas by placing an emphasis on positive communication which respects our limited knowledge and is founded in a positive attitude, presenting truth, principles, facts and justice.
  2. We will build up bridges of peace, which respect the multiple purposes and complexities of Servas as a key feature of our management process and which convey a consistent, positive attitude.
  3. We will strive to deal with the power seekers and the diverse attitudes within Servas acknowledging the limits of personal capacities and whether some key problems can be solved while striving to develop volunteer committees.
  4. Our values are centered on teamwork, development principles, and application of rules with good humor and determination.

The exercise ended at 6:15.

  • We continued working, discussing and studying, including a paper by Bob Luitweiler on Servas Administration emphasizing teambuilding and apprenticeships.
  • We felt several principles of the paper can be instituted; optimizing teamwork requires education in Servas changes to nominations procedures.

We reviewed:

  1. Minutes of previous General Assemblies
  2. Financial Operating Procedures, and
  3. Swiss Civil Code.

2. Motion Gary moved the meeting adjourn.

It did so at 8:30 p.m. ________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thursday, November 4

In attendance:

  • Geoff Maltby, President
  • Honora Clemens, General Secretary •
  • Omer Ozkan, Treasure
  • Gary Sealey, Peace Secretary
  • Claudio Pacchiega, Host List Coordinatortor

Agenda:

Omer led the discussion about Banking Operations; he advocated a principle for spending money by EXCO members:

  1. state the reason money is needed
  2. then Omer can advance the money
  3. the person receiving the advance must send a report showing results


  1. one can visit www.ex.com to learn the exchange rate
  2. the audit committee goes through the Treasurer's records annually.
  3. Omer will propose brief guidelines to help people fill out their statement to be in good standing financially
  4. he is developing a form (Financial Management) to be placed on-line.
  5. the treasurer will assist the Audit Committee to resolve any problems


3. Motion that the Treasurer of EXCO revue exceptional cases to the rule 2.1.1 page 3 in the Internal Audit Report and in collaboration with the Audit Committee propose practices to resolve the exceptions

  • Honora seconded----It passed unanimously.

03:27 Frits Stuurman arrived

Omer: General Principle: Fairness To avoid risk to Servas, methods to clear financial problems by Justice are:

  1. Help an individual by
    1. Developmental education
    2. Supervision which is removal of independent authority
    3. Reduction of his/her standing
    4. Ineligible to run for office
    5. Remove from office
    6. Remove membership
    7. Use law courts
      1. Small claims
      2. Criminal
  1. Management Improvement
    1. Do case studies of practices
    2. Improve Statutes, add by-laws
    3. Create a Financial Handbook Manual and Guidelines in collaboration with the Audit Committee
    4. Have an Oath of Office
    5. Require that all Servas Officers completing their term of office in Servas International must return the money left-over back to the Servas International bank account

Vote: unanimous; a management guideline was drafted to give effect to these principles.

EXCO decisions regarding the Internal Audit Recommendations (See copy in Appendices)

A. Action

  1. Mrs. Margret Klaser--Treasurer write to Margret confirming that her case will close unless she replies within 30 days

B. Action

  1. Kevin Newham---Case incomplete--
  • Numbers, 2 & 3 (that they step down) is not applicable.
  • The cases are to be reviewed as of the Draft of Guidelines
  • Number 4, When 1 & 2 are corrected to 3 & 4, we agree to the above
  • Number 5, we agree
  • Number 6, we object - it must include "if it is cost effective and reasonable
  • Number 7, we agree
  • Number 8, add to the document "the Treasurer will direct the investigation to opening the balance in the document for internal and external audits
  • Number 9 a, SI agrees that some bookings had errors in posting that were simple mistakes in professional accounting practices
  • Number 9b, we agree
  • Number 9c, no comment required
  • Number 9d, we agree
  • Number 10, we agree
    • Note: these numbers are based on pagination of a Draft Audit Report received in advance; page numbers to be adjusted for latest report.

C. Action Evaluation of SI Newsletter

  1. A Committee to be appointed comprised of:
    1. SI Newsletter Editor,
    2. National Secretaries,
    3. some Area Coordinators,
    4. a representative of the Treasurer, a representative of EXCO (we name Ray Joseph)
  2. The committee to be directed by Principles:
    1. Access to all hosts
    2. Access in three languages
    3. Economical
    4. Include the Process

D. Action Do a survey

  1. Discover sources of offset expenses
  2. To be considered:
    1. Alternative media
    2. Selling advertising
    3. Subscriptions for those not on the internet
    4. Email users pay a considerable amount for their equipment and access
    5. A small fee for those who can afford it be solicited to offset the cost of printing and postage
    6. Free to those who cannot afford a fee.


4. Motion: Geoff Maltby moved:

  1. EXCO approves the financial operating procedures package dated July 2004; subject to further improvements in consultation with the Audit committee, and;
  2. EXCO requires that all members of EXCO and Area Coordinators as well as other officers of Servas International be in compliance with these procedures Including:
    1. Resolution of outstanding accounts,
    2. Provision of receipts and other acceptable proof of payment;
  3. Where the Audit Committee or Treasurer identifies that funds have been retained or have been expended by officers without providing proof of payment satisfactory to the Treasurer, the #Treasurer will:
    1. direct officers to comply within one month of the identification of non-compliance and
    2. will also provide a copy of such direction to the President;
  4. Where the Officer is unable to comply within one month, he or she will be directed by the Treasurer :
    1. to refund outstanding non-accounted funds
    2. and will not be allocated future advances;
  5. Within three months of the President's receiving a copy of such direction by the Treasurer, and until or unless compliance is provided,
    1. the President will require a motion for consideration by EXCO for requiring the resignation or suspension from office of the non-compliant officer;
    2. and in addition EXCO will not support the candidacy of any non-compliant officer as candidate for elected office in Servas International so long as the candidate is non-compliant.
  • Omer Ozkan seconded--It passed unanimously by those present:

Geoff Maltby, Honora Clemens, Omer Ozkan, Gary Sealey and Claudio Pacchiega Bibendra Pradhananga not in attendance


5. Motion I, Gary Sealey, move that EXCO will introduce the Oath of Office which includes three oaths:

  1. Servas Oath of Commitment
  2. Servas Oath of Confidentiality
  3. Servas Oath of Conflict of Interests
    • Geoff Maltby seconded---It passed unanimously by those present:
    • Geoff, Honora, Omer, Gary and Claudio


Claudio Pacchiega discussed Hospitality Club with EXCO

  1. Many people are members of both clubs
  2. Hospitality Club (HC) didn't want to remove the text "free accommodation" from the literature (a statement that angered some Servas people)
  3. HC has a lively website that draws young people
  4. the club has 30,000 members in just four years----Servas has 15,000 in 55 years
  5. The literature mentions our fee that other clubs do not have
  6. Our website looks stodgy compared to other organizations
  7. We need to rewrite the words for the search engine to have a better place in the listing
  8. We need to improve to draw in the young people

Decision: that EXCO will work to separate SI from HC, and try to arrange to remove the SI logo from the HC page ________________________________________________________________________________________________

Friday, November 5

In attendance:

  • Geoff Maltby, President
  • Honora Clemens, General Secretary
  • Omer Ozkan, Treasurer
  • Gary Sealey, Peace Secretary
  • Claudio Pacchiega, Host List Coordinator
  • Bibendra Pradhananga, Vice President arrived

Agenda:

  • Discussed Area Coordinators:
  1. their status in the Statutes (now there is only one reference)
  2. communication gaps between
    1. ACS and other ACs
    2. ACs and Servas countries
    3. ACs and the Convenors of Committees.
  3. the status of nominations and elections of Area Coordinators and Committee Convenors.

E. Action: with respect to South America AC election in which several countries have not voted

  1. Send letter to the AC again,
  2. Ask for the vote again,
  3. Refer to the earlier letter,
  4. Ask the status of the vote,
  5. Tell him/her we must hear from AC by Nov. 15
  6. Election must be complete by Dec. 14
  7. Also ask National Secretaries to reply

F. Action

  1. Discussion about what boundaries for Areas in Africa?
  2. Consider undertaking a study project for a few months

G. Action

  1. Check with National Groups what their needs are
  2. See what the options for W and E Africa are

H. Action

  1. EXCO recognizes the larger Peru only
  2. Write to Philip Alsanta informing him of these activities.
  3. Bibendra Pradhananga will write to inform them.
  4. He will also inform the NSs and Anita


6. Motion: I, Gary Sealey, move that the larger group of Servas members in Peru be recognized as the only official Servas member group in Peru.

    • Honora Clemens seconded---The vote passed unanimously with all 6 EXCO members present.
  • Bibendra Pradhananga will write to inform them.
  • He will also include informing the NSs and Anita


7. Motion by Gary Sealey: I move that EXCO create a new area called Southern Africa Omer seconded---The vote passed unanimously with all six EXCO members present


8. Motion by Gary Sealey: I move that a study team be formed to address the remainder of Africa outside of Southern Africa and whether or not there be definition of one or more areas, or some other form of outreach to hosts and membership development.

    • Omer Ozkan seconded---The vote passed unanimously with all six EXCO members present


9. Motion by Gary Sealey: I move that EXCO contact Demelza Lewis to ask her recommendations as to which countries to include in the new area Southern Africa, for EXCO's review and evaluations

    • Claudio Pacchiega seconded---The vote passed unanimously with all 6 EXCO members present


I. Action

  • Gary Sealey will convene a team to study the future form of Servas.
  • Frits, Omer and Honora wish to be on the team with others.
  • Geoff Maltby will speak to Siriporn Srithong in Bangkok on his way home

12:57 Brief Break

Outstanding Points Discussed, Not Resolved

  • Define scope and limit of inactive officers including ACs
  • Give back computers and software if such return is:
  • Cost effective (consider re-shipping, obsolescence)
  • English to be adopted as the common accounting language

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Friday Afternoon

2:33 p.m. Those who joined EXCO:

  • Jo Verwimp
  • Fernand Comte
  • Jacqueline Spaak
  • Mary Jane Mikuriya
  • Inken Resa-Thomas
  • Frits Stuurman
  • Colette Marteau
  • Gerald Hoelscher
  • Alex Dali
  • Geoff Maltby Welcomed our guests and explained the themes of our Strategic Planning Exercise, Welcome to Our Journey, assisted by
    • Claudio Pacchiega who showed his drawing of Servas as he sees it
    • Omer Ozkan who showed his drawing of his view of Servas
  • Geoff Maltby told them a bit about what we had been doing.
    • The elections
    • The Hospitality Club
  • Omer Ozkan spoke about Servas Management
    • Where it stands
    • The annual report
    • Global support
    • Servas communications
    • Internal
    • External
    • The management guideline draft intended for the next three years
  • Alex Dali distributed, discussed and presented a comprehensive document about the findings of the internal Audit of the SI accounts 2001-2002-2003
see : Comments made during the presentation of Internal audit report at the EXCO meeting in Paris

He noted that there is no Audit Committee. Past officers, committees etc. are, by the Statutes, finished three months after the General Assembly. (Oct. 25, 2004)

It was noted that:

  • Before Thailand the Treasurer paid on trust
  • After Thailand the Treasurer needs receipts
  • Colette Marteau dispersed and discussed a one-page document entitled

HOW TO IMPROVE MANAGEMENT OF SI FINANCES (see Appendices for more information)

  • Omer Ozkan spoke about:
    • Management Guidelines
    • Principles of Financial Management
  • A group discussion about Management Guidelines followed, and the EXCO explained what actions it was considering for each observation in the Audit Report.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Friday Evening

9:05 p.m.

• Discussion of WHALE and ICT. In attendance:

  • Guido Bienhaus,
  • Monika Cohnen,
  • Geoff Maltby,
  • Bibendra Pradhananga,
  • Honora Clemens,
  • Omer Ozkan,
  • Gary Sealey, and
  • Claudio Pacchiega
  • A discussion was held between Guido and Claudio about access to the master code etc.
  • Discussion of WHALE

Omer: Servas rather than S3, could help WHALE move forward Guido's reply:

  • 95% of WHALE is developed with Germany
  • it is housed in Germany
  • Guido feels he can move forward best by keeping it in Germany with the few countries that have started with him.
  • Important to have our travelers sign a Data Protection Paper
  • Who will work the Servas.org site?
  • he answered that Lisete Murik is interested in staying
  • Guido advises it makes sense from a programming and Information Technology view to separate sites and Servers for servas.org and for WHALE
  • Many people visit ICT
  • WHALE is smaller, easier to run and maintain
  • How can we find people with appropriate qualifications to run servas.org?
  • Guido Bienhaus reply:
    • I'm still willing to look at bugs,
    • I'm still willing if no press on time-
    • I'm willing to give time to people who are really serious about moving forward.
    • ICT is an independent committee EXCO can not define what ICT is to do
    • Ask Uwe Federer
    • ICT has to be elected
  • The following were also discussed with Guido
    • a lack of an enterprise plan for Servas
    • no clear enterprise architecture
    • difficulty getting the most current Key List
    • teamwork to conceptualize
    • It's time for Servas to change
    • Authorize someone to do a good job
      • Celebrate the good job done
      • Define what we want all the way down to cost analysis
    • Problems to address
      • Lack volunteers in some areas
      • High pressure in some volunteer areas
        • Tech stuff
        • E-mail back-up
    • Help desk
    • Applications
    • ICT manager
    • Does an EXCO person have all the proper permissions?
      • How does he get them?
      • Need a small team of three people to keep it going
    • Strengthen and Clarify the Enterprise
      • Begin with Statutes - SI, By-laws and Local charters
      • Some paid support for servas.org site operation
      • Now and soon
        • clean-up,
        • maintain
      • Mid-term, six months
        • design
        • consult
      • Long term, by 2007
        • Resource impact
        • Research, consult, evaluate, GA to vote and then review

________________________________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Saturday, November 6

In attendance:

  • Geoff Maltby, President
  • Honora Clemens, General Secretary
  • Omer Ozkan, Treasurer
  • Gary Sealey, Peace Secretary
  • Claudio Pacchiega, Host List Coordinator
  • Bibendra Pradhananga, Vice President
  • Jo Verwimp
  • Inken Resa-Thomas
  • Mary Jane Mikuriya
  • Jacqueline Spaak
  • Fernand Comte
  • Gerald Hoelscher
  • Colette Marteau

Agenda: Geoff Maltby opened by talking about the enterprise as mentioned earlier Gerald Hoelscher presented a discussion with charts which he constructed as he spoke of

    • AN ANALYSIS of INTERNATIONAL LEVEL of GOVERNANCE
    • An Agenda was presented;
      • 1. Democratic Procedures in SI
      • 2. Rehabilitation/Education of NGs
      • 3. Rectification of financial problems
        • Essential central operations
      • 4. Clarification

10. Motion: Gary Sealey moved that the agenda be accepted. Bibendra Pradhananga seconded --- it was unanimously accepted

Gerald Hoelscher made charts and spoke about Servas as a Federation under the Swiss Civil Code

    • 1. Democratic Procedures in SI
      • The Swiss Code and the implications for the governance of Servas
      • We have about 80 world wide members (NGs)
      • SI is a federation of National Groups
        • Each has one delegate per National Group
        • In Barcelona there was no agenda
        • In Barcelona there was no vote on an agenda
        • They suggest an Extraordinary General Assembly be held

12:40 p.m. a break

Gerald Hoelscher proceeded with

    • 2. Rehabilitation/Education of NGs to rectify the angry words and difficult relations developed *** through the GA in Barcelona
        • They want to have the hurts recognized and to move to reconciliation
        • They want EXCO News to Educate by publishing
          • The Statutes
          • The Rules of governance
          • The role of the GA
          • Procedures of GA and what the plans are
          • Submit by NG

1:00 p.m. Guido Bienhaus and Monika Cohnen arrived

1:08 p.m. Alex Dali arrived

1:14 p.m. Grant Barnes arrived

Gerald Hoelscher: Proposed:

    • EXCO Newsletter needs to be printed in more languages
    • EXCO Newsletter must go only to Key People

Lunch Break 3:23 p.m. the meeting resumed Mary Jane & Gerald: Proposed

    • Education should go to NS via EXCO Newsletter
    • Address the wrong doing
    • Correct the Barcelona minutes and reduce the discussion in them
    • Restore items omitted or abstracted from the minutes

Gary Sealey: A clean up of the minutes would have to be approved by GA.

J. Action

    • Send all EXCO Newsletters to National Groups by email and paper

K. Action

    • Change the voting paddles to avoid hurt feelings --- name only, no flag

L. Action

    • Send Luis Santiago Cabeza in Spain a thank you letter including praise:
      • There were good results in the conference, good work, keep going
      • Ask Luis for legacy documents to help us plan the next one
      • Review/correct voting for nominating committee and youth committee

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Monday, November 8

In attendance:

  • Geoff Maltby, President
  • Honora Clemens, General Secretary
  • Omer Ozkan, Treasurer
  • Gary Sealey, Peace Secretary
  • Claudio Pacchiega, Host List Coordinator
  • Bibendra Pradhananga, Vice President arrived

Agenda:

  • Africa
  • South America
  • Actions
  • Bibendra Pradhananga
  • Nominations and Elections
  • EXCO Work plan
    • For next 12 months in detail
    • For mid future in some detail
    • For long term

11. Motion: Moved by Omer Ozkan, Treasurer that:

  • The Servas International Executive Committee empowers Gary Sealey to register the Servas International legal seat in Geneva Switzerland consistent with the Swiss Civil Codes.
    • Second by Bibendra Pradhananga, Vice President
    • Vote in favor 6
    • Vote against 0
    • Vote abstain 0

Action Plan discussed:

  1. Appoint nominees until Extraordinary General Assembly iis held
  2. Distant vote
    1. Of those people already nominated If five or fewer people, they will be considered elected
    2. If six or more people, they will stand for election by distant vote with their term lasting until the EGA have new elections
    3. The SI Newsletter editor and committee will be recognized as elected
    4. The youth committee will also be recognized as elected.


12. Motion: Gary Sealey moved that following close review of the conference proceedings, nominations and elections of officers, including the committee members of the Servas GA 2004, that EXCO organize a distant vote be held

  1. That EXCO appoint the nominees where there are five or fewer nominees for the following committees and where there are six or more that a distant vote be held: The Appeal Committee, the Audit Committee, The Development Fund Committee, the ICT and the Job Description Committee
  2. That the term of appointment be until the Extraordinary General Assembly. The following committees be informed that their term of office will continue until the date of the Extraordinary General Assembly at which time a new election will be held: The Nominating Committee, The SI Newsletter Editor and the Executive Committee (EXCO)
  3. The term of appointment of the Youth Project Coordinator position be considered for reappointment at the Extraordinary General Assembly as well.
  • Seconded by Omer Ozkan --- Passed unanimously

13. Motion: Gary Sealey moved:

  1. that we put on hold ACs of: North America, Caribbean, South Pacific, Europe, SW Asia, Central America.
  2. that we recognize ACs whose elections have been completed: Far East Asia and SE Asia.
  3. that we will write to the National Secretaries of groups in South America who have not voted,
  4. that we will ask them why they have not voted and
  5. that we will invite them to vote before 14 December in consultation with Anita Kalbermann.
  6. that EXCO arrange a study team to study Anglophone and Francophone Africa
    1. with the view to a possible regrouping and,
    2. with the expectation that EXCO's decision is to appoint a new Area Coordinator of Southern Africa.
    • We will contact Demelza Lewis.
    • Honora seconded --- it passed unanimously


Allegations to Bibendra Pradhanango as made by the Audit Committee: At 6:30 p.m. Geoff Maltby, Servas International President, asked Bibendra to explain the problems documented in their internal audit, reported October 2004.

  • Bibendra refused to give any explanations about his receipts approved by Gin
  • Bibendra said : “All my receipts were approved by Gin, the Treasurer. You [EXCO] should ask her why she has approved them.”
  • Questioned on a few specific topics, he gave an overview which the President indicated was insufficient.
  • Bibendra then asked, by the President, to consider submitting his resignation from the position as Vice President of Servas International.
  • Bibendra said : “
I claim my authority as elected Vice-President
I refuse to sign any paper
I refuse to be suspended, I refuse to resign
Bibendra declared that he needs to go back to Nepal in order to “consult his friends and relatives”.
He was advised that his presence would not be required for meetings November 9, 2004.
Bibendra left the meeting at 7:30 after being declaring : “Let ask the people who voted for me, to decide”.

14. Motion: Geoff Maltby (to protect liability of other director officers of EXCO) moved:

  1. that no further funds be allocated to Bibendra Pradhananga
  2. that he not be given any assignment of significant responsibility until the matter is cleared up.
  • Seconded by Omer.
    • The votes of the five people present were in unanimous agreement.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Tuesday, November 9

In attendance:

  • Geoff Maltby, President
  • Honora Clemens, General Secretary
  • Omer Ozkan, Treasurer
  • Gary Sealey, Peace Secretary
  • Claudio Pacchiega, Host List Coordinator

At the request of the President, Bibendra Pradhananba is not in attendance.


A visitor, Bertrand Bailleul gave EXCO a paper he wrote after fifteen years of working in Servas International and after three years of quiet reflection. He gave EXCO permission to use his paper in part or whole, as is or rearranged. EXCO may use his name. In summary the paper discussed his reflections about:

  • Interviews ---- very important
  • Get reports of the past. Make some decisions main line for the next 3 years.
  • Open communication
  • No lawyers
  • Go back to simple


It took him 2 months for a simple trip in England:

  1. To get the Letter of introduction
  2. To get the stamp
  3. To get the addresses to contact someone ---- it is just too complicated


AN INFORMATION PROTECTION STATEMENT was received and signed by each member of EXCO not including Bibendra


15. Motion: following discussion of a rough draft Peace Plan, Gary Sealey proposed

  1. to build on peace networking so as to attract to Servas, in particular members of justice seeking groups, including both young travelers and hosts; and to encourage them to become travelers and hosts
  2. the Host List Coordinator provide focal point for facilitating Servas interviews as target groups
    • Seconded by Geoff Maltby---The vote was accepted unanimously


16. Motion: Claudio Pacchiega moved:

  1. that a group be formed by the Host List Coordinator to guarantee the quality of the Host List produced by each country
  2. that this group can make recommendations
  3. that the countries shall correct and refine their list, according to the recommendations, so they may be used more efficiently by travelers.
    • Gary Sealey seconded---The vote was unanimously in favor of the motion.


2:00 p.m. Claudio Pacchiega left to catch his train.

3:04 p.m. Bibendra Pradhananga and Alex Dali arrived


  1. Bibendra was offered a chance to explain his finances with Alex.
  2. Due to his experience in the travel business, for Alex, Geoff was able to interpret and apparently clarify one of Bibendra's ticket-purchases.
  3. Bibendra was offered time away from the work of EXCO to give him an opportunity to clear up his accounts.
  4. He was also given the opportunity to ask for more time if needed.
  5. Bibendra declared his innocence and said he would let the people decide.

The meetings ended at 4:47 p.m. ________________________________________________________________________________________________

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